Episode 15: The best high school basketball tournament you never heard of: Part 1.

In this episode we dive into a legendary small-town basketball tournament that at its peak in the 1980s featured superstars like NBA Hall-of-Famer and Olympic champion Karl Malone, NCAA enigma Benny Anders, and Louisiana basketball legend Bobby Joe Douglas.

The Dual State Tournament, which ran for 89 years in south Arkansas, wasn’t just a proving ground for rising talent—it was a battleground where basketball dreams were made. Join Shon and Wayne as we reminisce and relive this event that was a must-watch for hoops fans of the era.

Credits:

Intro and outro music: Mason Enis

Narrator: Haylee Wolf

Host: Shon Enis

Guest: Wayne Pumphrey

Transcript

welcome sports fans to Gen X classic Sports where we bring the Nostalgia of our Sports filled youth into the present

day grab your favorite retro jersey grab open a cold one and let's stroll down memory lane together we're here to

discuss iconic Sports moments teams and athletes from our generation this is Gen

X classic sports sports talk for Gen xers by gen xers hello everybody this is Sean I just

wanted to do a better job at introducing my buddy Wayne before the podast actually starts uh most of you listen to

this you know Wayne Pumphrey he's the father of the Dragon Sports Network the

DSN as we refer to it uh where we both grew up and he's kind of a in my opinion

a Pioneer in high school sports broadcasting in the state of Arkansas he's been doing it for longer than

anybody else and um he kind of set the standard for that in a really small town

at a small high school so uh he's also a historian and he really digs into the

history of uh the area in which we grew up and sports being a big part of that he certainly focuses on that so uh

that's uh Wayne and he was in episode two and if you want to hear more from him uh check out episode two but uh

welcome to the podcast I appreciate you listening and let's talk about the Dual state tournament later everybody who's

everybody who's listened enough uh they know who you are but I'm going to reintroduce you later we're not going to

spend time doing that now but you and I have spent a lot of time over the years talking about something called the Dual

State basketball tournament and you and I grew up in the town where that is hosted in Junction City Arkansas

Louisiana and I believe I've heard you refer to it before as at one time the

longest running high school basketball tournament west of the Mississippi is that correct or something to that

something like that for a while it was caught some people

and I say some people the people I'm refer to is people that keep up with researchers you know people like

that I during the 75th Anniversary started looking and then when the DSN

got involved the 75th Anniversary for those wondering I believe was uh around

2006 2007 but I went back and got to looking at I talk to you

when the DSN started covering it we were still in the old gym and we would cover usually I think

the last two nights of it and we were wondering how old it was

where it ranked and all that so after the that dual state was over which I believe was

2016 I went to looking and I will call it this Sean and I'll stand by it at one

point the Dual state tournament was the oldest continuous boys and girls tournament in the

nation there were tournaments and I'll admit that started sooner than dual

State uh but it would be a boys tournament I didn't find a girls tournament like that I did find boys

tournaments the girls tournaments I did come across were not near as old as dual

state so I'll stand by The Continuous boys and girls well and that's impressive enough as it is and and did

it run 89 years before it stopped is that correct or did I miss it by a few

years I believe you're right that's 89 what what gets a little confusing is

that as you know uh the last week of January we all look forward to it because that's that was dual State and

the year they switched to a you know we're going to do it in

December they did two tournaments that year one in January and one in December for some reason it got everybody

confused but I had it as you did at 89 you know what's interesting I think you're right I think there's a lot of

tournaments nowadays that are just male or just female but you don't see a lot of Co co-mingled um tournaments with the

boys teams and the girls teams playing in the same location that that's probably a logistical thing and if you

really think about it it's amazing that the school pulled that off with one gym for as long as they did

really yeah I you're right I one of one of the draws for a coach for dual state

was the fact that you know for a while you know especially when we were growing up a coach sometimes would be coaching

both teams boys and girls varsity now you'd have different coaches you know Junior varsities but you know hey I'm

going get in a tournament and I need my girls play need the boys to play dual stayed offer that so you would have a

coach and and the school was good about back in the day working with them hey you know we'll have your boys game and

then he get a break and then the girls game were Vice Versa you know there were big game in between and he would be you

know the Coach B relax a little bit then get get ready instead just running out there you know or some coach say hey go

ahead and if you can put them back back is fine with me and that was one thew School uh the more likely the same coach

coached both teams I mean that's just the way it was yeah and it it really it really

benefited school you know having that because now you got two teams coming not one and I

guess we should back up a minute because there's going to be a person or two uh as David says among our ones of

listeners there's going to be a person or two who may not be familiar with it

and let me just say that the whole point of the tournament to me was always that you had teams from two different states

uh playing against each other that's why it was called the Dual state is my understanding and we're talking about

North Louisiana and South Arkansas teams Crossing or meeting technically meeting

at the state line and playing against each other against teams they wouldn't normally schedule and what's fascinating

about it is that going back as far as it does people didn't get so caught up in

all the classifications and whatnot because there really weren't many early early early on it was just an open

format probably um later on as you had Arkansas schools it became uh B siiz

schools for a while Arkansas I know had b and a and double and on up and Louisiana Louisiana even had c-size

schools and b-size schools and then we're all now kind of used to the a dou a AAA thing because it's kind of

standardized more now but the whole point of this was that no you didn't necessarily get what I would call a

current 7A School necessarily down there playing but you had dozens of schools

that were within a few students of each other enrollment Wise from CNB in

Louisiana up to single a and AA in Arkansas there weren't there was not a huge discrepancy in enrollment I would

think and the whole appeal was that these small schools were so geographically close to each other even

if they were across the state line and I think you and I were joking yesterday that most likely a 70 I we don't know we

just we're throwing a number out there but 70 75% of the participants probably

bust in within an hour of the town they probably were not many teams longer

farther than an hour away so we're talking dozens of schools if I'm right Wayne didn't they

have a bracket of 64 teams one year was that boys only or girls or both or

wasn't 64 the number one year in in one of the brackets or something or am I making that up I I know I I've gotta go

back and look I know for a fact they had 52 teams one year which which Sean

that's unheard of I mean that's think about this and you may tell folk you can

tell folks about the gym little born death but you know for those listening think of a band boox losers type

G and you got 52 teams roll in and I believe this was in

the early 70s I want to say Sean 7172 somewhere in that neighborhood 52 teams

roll in and I remember interviewing Mr Muse years later Paul H Muse who who was

involved with school district for 36 years coached helped build the football field coach football to uh the field

we're at now that's why it's named after him he told me they pulled it off

without a hitch the schedule was set up they brought them in brought them out

and you did it all in one week in six days and nights they played whole

tournament 52 teams now there was some more that got up in the high

40s uh there may have been one bigger than the 52 I had to go back and look

but I remember that because he was proud of the fact that the administration then got together got it ready pull that are

younger and maybe from not from Arkansas and Louisiana need to understand about that is that prior to some point in the

80s there were there were no rules or laws against playing games any time of

day so it was the it was the governor Bill Clinton administration I believe

that said you can't play athletics until whatever 300 PM or something whatever

whatever 3:30 3:30 that was the uh that

was in 1983 his wife helped or orchestrate that

uh I believe I was trying to think the name of it it was it had the word blue and

why I remember that I don't know but that did kind of hurt stuff but what du

state did was at 3:30 on the dot you know you started hooping and then they backed up to starting on a Saturday and

run to Saturday off Sunday of course explain more now that I'm hearing about thinking about it how foreign this might

be to people we're talking about a tournament with say 36 48 whatever teams in it boys and girls and we're talking

about playing it all in in one bandbox gym that probably half the high schools in America had it was all they were all

kind of the same design just like you see in the Hooser movie but they started the games at 9:30

or 10 o'clock in the morning and that was how they were getting away with playing I say 9:30 or 10 it may have

been 11 but it was early I mean they played morning game and so Wayne and I grew up in a school district hosting

this event and we could pay our dime or quarter or whatever it was and the whole

class would go to the the games after lunch or whatever you go lunch then go

to the games and then go get the bus and go home yeah they they would bring I remember being in elementary way back in

the day and you know we all knew I don't care how old you were you knew dual

state was coming and the day the day that we would go usually it would be at

the start of the tournament they would bring the whole Elementary you paid to get in and then you know you'd have two

or three dollars on you and the older students as we called them would come up in the stands and say you can now think

about this you talk about you know the way things are now here's a health issue for some folks they're selling candy to

kids after I mean they we're loading up on it yes man we had a blast and it was

fun to watch and let me say this now before I forget Sean we're not just

talking about okay this is a tournament they play basketball this was a quality

tournament that you saw quality play and coaching Hall of Fame coaches and

Arkansas Louisiana sports sports hall of fames coached in this tournament and I

know sure pretty sure later you want to get into players the players that come through here I mean they're legendary

yes sir played in this tournament and and don't get distracted by the fact that yeah we're talking about small

schools like like you mentioned but these teams were competitive and I remember and I believe

it was coach Gary Don Smith a union who made the statement I'm not going to swear to it I believe it was him the

reason he wanted in dual State well for one is close by quality play but he said playing in dual state is like playing in

the state tournament and if you can win it or handle playing in it then you'll be ready for state that's how good

basketball you know uh not only that but the the thing that I think needs to be

mentioned that you and I talked about yesterday before I forget it is that for anybody listening who's not familiar

with it and thinks oh it's just a bunch of tiny little schools no the advantage to the tiny little school thing is that

you didn't have a football team and you thought about basketball year round

practically yeah you probably played baseball ran track maybe but those schools they hit the gym in the summer

they stayed in the gym in the summer they didn't have football get between them and the basketball season schools

like ours that played that was a little bigger and played football those were mostly the same guys you had a few that

didn't play football but for the most part you had to wait until football season was over and immediately roll

into basketball well these other schools that were smaller like the one Carl Malone went to for example they didn't

have to deal with that so they were playing a month earlier than you whenever the state allowed them to they

were already playing and so back in the day I'm not really sure there were too many limits on how many games cuz

sometimes you'd see in the news you'd see in the newspaper that a Louisiana team had won State and they'd be like 42

and two or something they play because of tournaments there were no I don't think there were limits on how many

tournaments except your budget and that was another thing these teams could come play in this tournament and they didn't

need to stay in hotels it was an easy drive for them it was an easy drive for the fans except for the few times that

it snowed and caused a lot of chaos for the Dual state tournament from what I understand man but um you know it was

not a bad thing that you had all these small schools in fact it made the basketball even better so um that that's

something I think's important to point out as well so yes as Wayne was saying

Hall of Fame level coaches um Hall of Fame at every level players and and and

then the coaches who came in to recruit um you know Dale Brown I remember they made a big deal out of Dale Brown from

who's LSU 's legendary basketball coach being in the stands I am quite sure Leon

barmore who and and Sanja hog or whatever her name was from Louisiana Tech lady texter program quite sure they

made the trip up there over the years and just on and on and on about all the different uh college coaches that um at

least in person came in and sat down and Wayne do you have any understanding at

all of how many seats we could uh how many people we could hold in the old gy by the way way folks this is going to be

confusing people from my hometown refer to the old gym and the old old gym and the new it gets really confusing we're

on our third gym that hosted this tourn this this tournament went across three gyms and depending on what generation

you were the old gym May refer to two different buildings so Wayne and I as students experienced it in what we

called the new gym which in 50s yeah 1953 54 open or it was built and it

opened in 54 that's the one we refer to you and I as the new gy the old gy was

in that old red building and one side was stands and the other side was a

stage for plays and events like that and now of course we're in Dragon aringa

which is the third one but so that's across our Three Gems that we're

referring to so if it gets confusing it probably is to us as well but Wayne you

have any idea of what we used to call the new gymm built in 53 how many uh people that thing held at any point I

mean do you have any is anyone ever mention that the the number I heard of course this was the night Bobby Joe

Douglas and Marian rolled in and he was leading the nation and scoring that night they had close to

3,000 people in there now that's stands packed out set in the Indian style where

you know we always had the issue with people walking because it was so small they were sitting Indian style around

the court and the foyer was packed and I heard y heard the

anywhere from 2,800 to 3,000 in there now that's of course packed out I think

you could conservatively conservatively say about 2500 would be safe as the

average you know like you know not just you can't move cuz that night it was packed out so the GM and let me say this

Sean I was just talk to some folks earlier that gy was worth every penny

spent on it and it wasn't a lot spent on it if you hear the story how it got built that's a subject for another time

but to serve 62 years yeah 62 dual

States uh they got their money's worth if you can picture bleachers that aren't

individual seats they're just bench style and if you can picture it's they're completely wrapped around the

arena and the the the bottom row was also the bench for the players so there

was no just chairs you're talking three feet at no I wouldn't even say that a

foot and a half of space between the edges of the court and the the front row and if people were sitting on the floor

Indian style there was no room the referees would have to move them out of the way to take the ball in if it went

out over there you can't imagine how close to the action the fans were nowadays these ARA Arenas are all pit

style I call it where they're dug out they sink into the ground you're above all the action imagine sitting at the

actual ground level with all these great teams playing and in the front row being the same uh they're literally feet

planted on the same parket floor that the or hardwood floor that the players are using so it's a lot of people in a

small area and and I've always joked that I don't know who came up with the idea of putting the bathroom lines and

the concession stand lines and the lines into the door all in the same room but they did and so you had utter chaos and

that in that uh lobby area because you walk you walked in there's a line there taking up money which ran into the line

coming out of the bathrooms which ran into the lines to the concession stand all at

once and the popcorn machine it was the smallest Lobby you can imagine for those

kind of and granted those were the crowds you had once a year but um

that number is alarmingly high because of fire code reasons now that you you

say 2,000 plus people is kind of scary um and the bleachers were tall it was a

pretty good ways up there and uh if you think on a 20 degree night it'd be impossible to have a gym run that hot

you're crazy because that many people packed in there it was a steamy hot it

man you'd have to get up you'd have to get up at the top where the windows would open to to breathe you know let

that 20° air in there if it was that cold but I hope we've set the scene kind of there's a style of those gyms that

I've heard about and I don't know if IRS was exactly that style but they went all around the country in the 40s and 50s

kind of making the same gym at just about every school so it it fit that that style for sure that you've probably

seen in movies and such and of course people from our hometown uh they're they're definitely used to it but it's

definitely a a throwback old gym but uh so so these teams all would come

in boys and girls teams and they would uh they'd mix it up with schools from

across the state line and then you know as the bracket wore on they might play someone in their District you just you

just never knew but um Wayne said it right it was a good preparation it was a

month yeah it was a month before the postseason for everybody yeah yeah about about a month

yeah actually a little less when you consider you had District tournaments probably two weeks out maybe two and a

half and then your regionals right behind us so yeah yeah and I hate to say this because somebody's going to get mad

but I used to hear that one of one of Junction's basketball teams kind of

mental hurdles was always that we put so much emphasis man on hosting that thing

and trying to do well in it that that they put everything they had into that and some years are just with good teams

there wasn't a whole lot left for the district and Regional tournaments if we got there because we expended so much

energy you know a lot of years trying to win that the Dual state tournament and there may be some truth to

that I've had I've had I can think of two coaches off the top of my head that told me uh we might as well stop playing

basketball after d once dual state was to let's go on and play baseball because the emphasis and it was a very strong

emphasis we want to win this tournament I just think that's that's a result of Hosting such a big event

and uh you want to do well um you know generations of families played in this thing I did not play in it I was hurt

when I was on the basketball team and the first year and didn't get to play in it and then I didn't play anymore my

brother played in it and won it uh my uncle my dad you've got family probably

that played in it everybody's got family that played in it um and it's it was

almost a a family event I can remember those Saturday there were Saturday afternoon sessions the semi were on

Saturday afternoons and if you wanton of course you played in the finals at night and I can remember those Saturday

afternoon sessions you'd see people coming in from out of town man they they might have married and moved away and

they got a nephew playing in dual State on a Saturday they're coming to town for that so it it's quite it was quite the

event and um Wayne you graduated in 82 and I was 89 so what year was it

where they sold the uh the 50th Anniversary t-shirts do you remember

that there was a purple t-shirt with a gold logo on it that was for 50 years I believe was that right for gold

logo a gold progam 81 okay 1981 yeah 81

so 81 because at one point Sean and I just

again fact I was talk to some of your kin folk I made the statement and everybody in the room agreed

wholeheartedly there was a period from 1978-79

through probably 1982 maybe 83 that some of the best

basketball in this country was played in that gym in Jun here in Jun City in the

D state tournament I mean it was that was how competitive it

was is there anything about the history and the background on it you want to mention and I want to say now is working

on other projects similar to this that I'll probably participate in later on uh

whether it's podcasts or videos or interviews or written documents or whatever so there's some history stuff

that Wayne is putting a lot of work into about dual State and you can imagine with an 89 year event it's a lot of

history so Wayne's working real hard on some stuff too that we're going to later talk about so there's other opportunities to really dig into the

history for our purposes I brought this up as a topic because this is show about

Gen X and the first person I ever saw dunk a basketball in a game in person

was Carl Malone and okay that's your first one in that in that uh time frame

I'm talking about Carl Malone one of the 50 greatest players in

NBA history when they announced that back in the mid 90s I believe or lat later 90s and I've got a list of his

stuff to to talk about later but he's the first human being I saw Dunc a basketball in person and it made such an

impression on me clearly and then to to think that you know I followed his career all the way through 2004 after

whenever that happened I'm going to assume looking at his dates that he played that was around 80 or 81 is when

that happened with him and uh maybe 83

82 it doesn't matter I was 10 11 12 years old over there on the during

school time it it was a afternoon session and it sounded like he tore that into the gym apart when he dunked it and

um so I got to thinking wow you know Gen X has a representative big time that

traces right back uh to my hometown and you know we joke on this podcast that all roads lead through Arkansas there's

so many events in the World of Sports there's an aranan involved it's unbelievable whether it's Super Bowls

World Series it's crazy NBA Finals Scotty P

the dynasty of the Bulls Scotty P you've got all these things that kind of the people involved somehow or another

flowed through Arkansas and this is another one because this was South Arkansas where the gym actually sat even

though the town is on both sides and so I saw Carl dunk that basketball but I

also saw another there were two other cats that played in that thing that we're going to talk about eventually one

of them we're going to talk about was a guy named Benny Anders and he got ref famous all over again within the last I

don't know since Co maybe because um there was a documentary came out on ESPN

30 for30 and I don't know if it actually came out since covid or if it hit Netflix or something and a whole new

audience saw it for the first time but it's a 30 for 30 on F lamama Jama out of

the University of Houston and one of the participants one of the players on that team was Benny Anders and Benny Anders

was from a small town called bernes Louisiana which participated in in dual State against here's the crazy part

overlapping with Mr Carl Malone and his team out of a small town called Summerfield Louisiana and they were both

there in that early 80s time and then I'm gonna throw this out there because this is a third guy that Wayne and I

talked about yesterday and we both know that he has his own special story and

that was a dude named Bobby Joe Douglas and um we're not going to cover all three today there's not enough time

but I told promise Wayne I'm very anxiously looking forward to his uh

projects on Bobby Joe because he's got stuff going where he's gonna spend some time talking about Bobby Joe and and I'm

gonna call the podcast that I cover him the legend of Bobby Joe Douglas honestly because that's that's the appropriate

title yeah that would be the perfect title those three guys were three of the best basketball players in

America and they overlapped somewhat at this dual state tournament so imagine a

kid sitting there you're just kind of hearing that I heard my I know my parents talked about hey that Douglas

guy's gonna play this week at dual State and I'm thinking what what's the deal with this guy and then um then you'd

hear about Benny Anders my dad worked in bernes for 30 years or whatever and he would talk about Benny and and then of

course I go over there and I see Carl Malone and he's played on a team with his brother uh at one point I believe

Terry was it Terry Malone is that right Terry Terry who hey who's a very good

player himself these were three uh I should say Bobby Joe Douglas played in a little town called Mary and Louisiana we

should say that these are three small small small high schools and U there's

even more irony to the situation I guess if you will um someone from our hometown

ended up being Bobby Joe's high school basketball coach and there's a lot of connections between our hometown and

that that coach and that home that City Maran a lot of con con with Jun just so things in my family are connected to

that there's a lot of weird stuff going on here so we're going to do a legend of Bobby Joe Douglas who's the third and

his name will come back up as we talk about these other two but let's let's transition into an uh Benny Anders and

Carl I don't know how we can talk about them so much individually as far as dual State Wayne what do you remember date

wise and so forth about them playing against each other or sort of their roles on their teams and so forth

leading into some of these dual States back in the early 80s well first let me say this we

interviewed Bobby Joe's Douglas's coach uh this past Sunday Malcolm George and

Malcolm made a statement that I think uh your listeners will really appreciate and understand

especially when it ties in to what you're doing and that is these teams would see

each other anywhere from four to six times in a season so you had a rivalry

Loui straighten that out they're all North Louisiana teams go ahead yes I mean all of them okay now you got Bernie

is 14 miles south of here if you go 11 miles east when you get the burn East

you run into Summerfield if you get the burn East and you go about 28 miles west or I say East

I should say West Summerfield East to Maran they're all close together at this

same time don't forget spearsville Louisiana they had very good teams so you had a lot of competitive

basketball but the two that stood out in 1981 you was asking what year that I

remember real well was Benny and uh Benny Anders and Carl Malone and that

dual State you know it came down to them Benny course say you said went on

play University of Houston F slamma JMA folks go back and watch that will find

out that he was probably the the best player on the team and you go okay well

now we're talking about Hakeem Elijah Juan C Clyde Drexler Larry mhaw Michael

Young they have some quality players and the one they all talked

about that stood out was Benny and if folks want to know more about him go on

YouTube watch the 1983 final four the last 30 seconds and

right before the famous shot and then Lorenzo Charles dunks it North Carolina

State wolf pack another 30 for 30 by the way surviving events you're going to see a pass and a

Houston Cougar almost steals it I mean it's finger China fingertips away from

getting it y that was Benny Anders and everybody thought he had the

ball if he' had it he been a DB he was freakishly athletic is what I keep

hearing about you oh Lord yes well his his cousin was Orlando woid who who

played in the NBA who oldtime old school uh they you know uh around the same time

as Julius Irving and others you know when Curtis blow was rapping about basketball Orlando wo woid if I can say

it right stood out he was also kin to a guy by the name of Willis Reed yeah and Willis Reed was from Hao if you go about

well Sean how far would you say about seven more miles south of burn East you run into higho right before you get to

dubot Louisiana so that 81 dual State uh Bobby

uh Bobby Joe Do's already graduated but the 81 was exciting because you had these two guys coming

in and you know everybody talked about well the outlaw that was that was Ben Anders nickname The

Outlaw Carl commanded the attention because well you look at Carl

Malone you go okay this guy can definitely take over a ball game easy and he could and he

did but everyone where's he going to end up at and of course he ends up going to

Louisiana Tech which is another story in the s for another time Benny went on of course to University of Houston who uh I

think Benny played in 82 dual state I'm almost certainly did uh went to the final four and was the

famous Michael Jordan final four where he had shot at the end of near the end of the game to beat uh

Georgetown so Benny comes on they've been to the final four and he helps lead them to to two more um Benny is anything

you read about Benny or watch documentaries or whatever you hear that he was a freakish athlete like I think

he was about a six5 to 66 guy so in college that's going to make you a small

forward or a shooting guard and could jump out of the gym I mean I know I saw him play and duel State he didn't make

the impression on me probably that Carl did just because Carl was such a I don't

know what do you want like a physical he was just like I said when he dunked it he stood out he stood I mean yeah

probably six easily in high school and the thing is uh it just sound like he was tearing the gym apart when he dunked

and I'm sure it did for Benny too but I personally remember Carl Moore but I know I was in the gym when Benny played

and I know I followed him uh when he got off to University of Houston by the way

um if you're into Wikipedia and and I know stuff in there can be wrong the Wikipedia says Benny Anders was being

recruited by Dale Brown at Louisiana State LSU and Dale Brown said you got a

t-shirt on it was a t-shirt that said Outlaw on it and Dale Brown said what does that mean he said well I'm known to

not follow the rules and that was the end of the recruiting trip right there Dale Brown did not want anything to do

with that and so Benny to you know as good as he was on the Fe on the court he

never was a starter actually he was a he was what they called a dynamic role player they meant for him to come off

the bench and Spark them because you know they did have a guy named C Clyde Drexler ahead of him if if they I don't

even know if they really played the same position but guard wise they had a dynamic one named Clyde Drexler too but

um uh Benny Benny definitely got in trouble while he was at Houston so you

know he was known for his uh his uh flam kind of flamboyant which was kind of a

thing back then you know that's just before the Brian Bosworth days actually and the Deion Sanders days I mean he's

right there right on the cusp of when the players started realizing that maybe

their personalities could get them paid too you know and so Benny Benny was known as The Outlaw and he lived up to

it some at Houston and we we'll talk about that later but anyway so 1981 is they're they're going to they're on this

Collision course and and I'm going to assume and I don't even know did they play in the same district or do you know

I believe I believe they did because to play the five or six times yeah you'd see them in a tournament or two together

probably run into them and stay but I would think being as close proximity as they were that a couple those other

matchups were district confence and even with that um you know the thing is that

uh like Wayne said if you square off against each other more than two or three times get to know each other

pretty well and I'm going to assume that the smart ladies and men who worked on

these tournaments at our high school figured out that they better put these two teams on opposite sides of the

bracket no matter what I don't I don't know how they did the seedings or

whatever but if I'm running this tournament they're going to be seated one and two on opposite ends of the bracket from each other because I am not

having these guys play before the finals no way and so Wayne can you can you

speak any about kind of the the sort of the circus around that because if

anybody had hype it's it's Summerfield and bernes back

then absolutely as far as how they seated it I believe of course they

looked at record and they did percentage you know like you got a 17 and5 record

winning percentage of kind of I you call power ranking type thing if you will so

that's kind of how it was determined but I also been told over over the years when get talking about dual State what

people that were involved as far as the running of it scheduling everything uh

well think about this Sean Palestine Whitley had a really good girls team mid 2000s and they got them to dual State

well they wanted them down here because they knew they'd be a draw everybody was looking at them and you had quality and

let me again reiterate we're talking about the mainly the boys side of the bracket here the girls uh basketball was

topnotch uh Tammy Pian Rose Avery

from the hood girls teams the strong the hood girls teams uh of the late mid to

late 80s the uh strong girls teams in the early 2000s

you know so you had them down here to play in the tournament well it was a big draw and they seated them High the same

thing took place with uh Summerfield and bernes uh you they're not going to play

in the second round tournament if they're going to see each other at all early it'll be semifinals at the

worst and so I believe that year it was set up uh I know Summerfield won it at

80 and 81 so it was set up for them to meet again let's just say and I hope I

don't get in trouble the NCAA in the final four I'll put it that way yeah um

you'd have to put them against each other as late in the week as possible cuz you made all your money on Saturday

so you probably get by with it on Saturday afternoon but you really want them in there Saturday night so Wayne

you were a student and did you have I think you and I have talked about did you work quote work the tournament in

any way helping out with any of the organization so what' you do man we did I I know I didn't graduate at the

top of my class I'll admit that but I W I wasn't a complete idiot I was smart enough to get the best job you could get

and that was parking everybody parked think about the parking go back to that gym now our gym

you had a driveway up to it so to speak but if you're facing the front of the gym to the left was the football field

so they had a group out there handling parking we handled parking in the front well which one filled up first the front

would fill up so as soon as it fill up we go in and out the side door catch some of the action go back watch the

cars catch some of the action well I went ahead and volunteered I'll do all that y'all go watch for a while cuz I

wanted to see Benny and Carl so I would get through with that ease in there

watch the tournament now this was the same tournament that I met probably the

prettiest woman I've ever seen in all my life and ended up Mar so that that's my that's my favorite

dual state memory right there and especially from that 81 tournament but Sean I want to say this we're talking

about Carl and Benny and we should Carl Malone one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history

Benny Anders one of the most talked about players right now you know when you

really get talking to the old school guys because of that documentary F lamama Jama and then again they're

mentioned in surviving evance so really you can tie them in the two ESPN 30 for 30s you know one of the most popular

things ESPN's ever done but by the same token let me throw this at you Waldo

mcneel Steven Emerson Walker which is over near

Magnolia you L those are AR teams go

Louisiana and I mentioned them before spearsville Dubach

Sera campy they all had really good teams

solid team every one of these schools I just mentioned had solid programs in the case of w of excuse me I'm sorry of

McNeil and both were solid on the girl side and boy

side these teams if you didn't have Carl Malone and Benny Anders there could have

easily especially McNeil there was like a nine or 10 year run they were either

in the semis or in the finals and I can't Bo dominating man dominating yeah

yeah yeah you know we're sitting here talking about these guys and we should because they are significant to the

history of the game of basketball seriously that's not an over that's not an overstatement at all state

tournament yeah yeah and you know when you got up there to you know go well hey

man M Neils picking to play Stevens oh we got to see this you got to see the road runners and you know these are

teams that they're known for their basketball it goes back to what you said while it Go Sean when they got the

summertime they're getting ready for basketball school starts they're practic mid October their season start so when

you look up in March these teams are usually close to the uh State semifinals

or in the finals and they don't play I was going say a lot of Arkansas schools that have football they they'd be lucky

to play 25 games these Louisiana and smaller Arkansas schools that didn't have football they play 40 games a

season so you know they play two or three tournaments and I don't think the I don't know what the the rules were on

scheduling I know they tighten them up over the years in the 80s but you you know they played as much as they could

basically go ahead and uh couple more teams you I I just thought of Downsville

was in it some and they had they you know they would might not been consistent every year but I remember them being good enough a couple times

they were in the final if you got to the final four of dual State You' done something and I remember Downsville

being there and I remember them hitting a game-winning shot in the constellation game against Parks Chapel mention the

Trojans they may have been our Arch Rivals so to speak speak in a number of sports but they had quality teams boys

and girls and they would always make a good run uh noret did good at times if

fact won it in the 90s one time with Tony lhart when they you know everybody thought well Junction's got it this year

they come in and upset Junction and won the tournament won it in the final you know big as a deal as it was it was a

huge deal for us to win with the boys or girls team and the boys won three years in a row my freshman sophomore and

Junior years the boys program won dual State and then my brother won it later in the 90s so I mean it was it you know

three in a row is a big deal it yeah you know this was after Carl Malone was long gone in Vinnie Anders thank goodness but

yeah to your point um there were some really quality teams that had to Duke it

out those Union teams with rose Avery my God oh my good

Sean d one of the best coaches to ever walk the the hardwoods in Arkansas was

Coach Gary Gary Smith yes is that right yeah one of the best coaches ever in the state of Arkansas and Rose Avery

obviously one of the best women's uh players ever in the state of Arkansas just dominant man and so yeah unusual to

have the win and basically they'd alternate I think they'd play a boys girl a boys game girls game boys you

know all through the day like that and so you ju if you're a basketball Junkie

you just could not beat it man it was it was better it was better basketball than the state tournament or the Regionals or

the district a lot of times cuz you well here's why go back to what you

said how far off are these schools about an hour hour and a half at the most from

the vast majority of vast vast majority your Regional sometime going to be a little ways off States usually be a good

ways off every one of these teams we just mentioned and let me say this before I forget you you talking about

Rose Avery and un throw hu in there cuz they was having a showdown with him during this time and I'm sitting here

trying my best to remember the hu girls coach name and I apologize she had some quality teams and it was a b it was a

battle every time those two got on the court now every one of these schools we just

mentioned especially Stevens McNeil Waldo Huck and Union on Arkansas side

and then Louisiana Bernie Summerfield the Mullen Mull played at M

Hol on those good team and their coach was phenomenal Mount Holly's coach I

think what was his U Kathy boys and girls fantastic teams on

girls every one of these schools brought a passionate fan base to the

games you go well they're small schools yeah they may bring 75 80 people but

they congregated right around that team yeah and you heard them most of them

were going to pack out a fourth of that gym you know the gym was divided kind of so to speak in four sections so if you

walk in the front to the right one team was set up as you got up you walked up to up to the court and then right down

beside them there was a gap right down beside them was the other team so they would congregate around their team and

you knew they were congregating around thing because you could hear them and see them hey folks it's Sean I'm going

to jump in here again and and in this episode part one of the Dual State discussion at this point and we'll pick

this back up up again in a couple of weeks with dual State part two thank you so much for listening thank you for

joining us on genx classic Sports where Nostalgia meets The Thrill of the game tune in next time for more insightful

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